Invitation
Hi Team,
I received an email invitation from Johnatan to discuss tweaking my recordings in order avoid excess revision requests. I am always looking to improve, so I'm happy to hear whatever feedback the QC team has to offer!
Looking forward to your response,
Lauren
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Hello Lauren,
It is a pleasure to have you here in our community forums!
First of all, thank you so much for accepting the invitation. Could you maybe share with us the FX chain you use when you record? You can share the names of plugins, settings, or even screen captures of them if you want!
Also, if you can let us know which DAW you use could be beneficial since some of them process audio differently than others.
Finally, if you could share a normally processed sample, like the ones you send to speedies or contests, and a Raw one (free of FX and any processing done) it could help us a lot!
Thank you again, and we will be here ready to review all the info and help you out!
Kind regards,
Daniel
Hi Daniel,
Thank you for your response :)
I've certainly evolved my processing chain over my time with voice bunny...but I'll be happy to share what I've been doing recently. Since the start of 2021, I've been using Adobe Audition. The processing chain I've been using for my VB work (with no QC rejections until very recently) is RX8 Voice DeNoise, a Custom designed EQ, RX 8 DeClick and then Normalizing to -3.1db. After getting a few recent QC comments that it sounded like I was using heavy noise suppression, I've been submitting without that processing chain...simply copy pasting room tone to eliminate breaths and then normalizing to -3.1db. Even with this bare-bones processing, I'm getting feedback that my audio sounds over-processed. I've also gotten feedback several times that says it sound like I'm using a De-Esser...which I'm not. I usually handle sibalance by manually editing the waveform. It's been frustrating recently have several speedies rejected by QC without even being given the opportunity to improve them. Just now I submitted two speedys one right after the other, and one was approved and one was rejected due to "over-processing". I'm a bit at a loss for how to proceed. So any feedback you could offer would be very helpful. I will try to get specific settings for my plug-ins to you shortly...although, as I mentioned, my most recent submissions really haven't been processed at all..only manual editing and normalizing. I appreciate your time and look forward to your input!
Best,
Lauren
I will get some samples to you shortly as well :)
Here is a completely raw, unprocessed file that I just recorded. I'll send the same with my usual processing and my more recent "lite" approach shortly.
https://we.tl/t-96xk3rmVTj
Here is the same exact audio, processed with my normal FX rack as described (Voice DeNoise, Equalization, DeClick, Normalizing, as well as manual removal of breaths by copy-pasting room tone)
https://we.tl/t-Lv80uthrlO
And finally...here's one with my "lite processing" chain...no noise suppression, no EQ...just DeClick, copy pasted room tone to eliminate breaths, and normalizing to -3.1 db
https://we.tl/t-t81kCSGmqO
I look forward to your feedback!
Hi There...I'm going to submit one more file for you..this is for a booking...I used the "lite processing" and just got notification from QC that "Your recording sounds undesirably over-processed, which is impacting the quality of the deliverable. It may be due to a noise reduction plugin, an EQ, or a noise gate, for example.". As stated, I am not using any of these things! I am inclined to go back to my normal processing...as that always got approved until very recently...but if you could offer some feedback ASAP that would be very much appreciated as I definitely don't want a direct booking to get rejected by QC...thanks!
https://we.tl/t-RotxqUfKco
Hi, Lauren!
Thanks a million for joining us, I think Daniel's help (and the input from all of us) will render great results for the whole team. As a QC agent and producer who's audited and processed numerous audios of yours, I can tell you that so far the samples and explanation of your workflow are most enlightening!
I'll be performing spectral analysis on your samples and I can tell you from the start, we might have some work to do, but in the end, your wonderful voice will shine as it should!
Thank you once again for the willingness and patience to help us help you =D
– Héctor Adolfo Ituarte (Bunny Studio QC Agent & Producer)
Hello Lauren!
Sorry I took a bit to respond, I was reviewing the files thoroughly.
I wanted to let you know how we usually perceive the issue sonically, I think Hector can help me here as well, but our concern was based on how some of your processed files can sound like they have a "hole" in some specific frequencies. The usual procedure in post-production when we got those files was to increase the affected frequencies a bit, but that in turn could cause issues, I will explain in a minute why.
By running down on your FX chain, there are two processes that need to be used very lightly if at all, which are the De-Noise and De-click. Although they can be useful for fixing audio with those noises and click issues, it is better to try and sort those things out at the source, since they can take away some frequency material from your recording. For example, the De-noise plugins usually affect mid-highs and high frequencies, which we thought was the main issue. After reviewing the "light processing" version that you shared, it sounds like it has much more of that high-frequency material to me (maybe Hector can help me here as well with some measurements), that is why I made a suggestion yesterday to stick to that one in the meantime.
I wouldn't ask you to send the pure RAW versions to contests/speedies/bookings since the editing of breaths is super important and the normalizing is crucial as well, so at the moment I think that is the best option while we keep working on helping your voice shine more!
Now, going back to the usual post-production procedure that we used to do, (or at least me) was to add an EQ to your voice and increase the band around 7kHz by a couple of dBs. Some other post producers might take another approach, but that was what I usually did for spots that had your voice on them, and I think it helped you shine a bit more since I heard that lack of high-end spectrum, but it wouldn't completely solve that feeling of a sonic "hole" in that frequency range. After seeing some measurements done by Hector, I think we understand better where that sound comes from. Let me share one of those spectrograms with you:
This shows your RAW file, and the quick way to read a spectrogram is by seeing time from left to right (like a normal waveform on any DAW), frequency range from up to down, and amplitude (or volume of your frequencies) with the changes in brightness. So, the brightest sections represent the strongest frequencies of that recording, and the dimmest represent the weakest.
If you look closely, there are some horizontal "shadows" or black lines around the middle of the graph, this correlates directly to that feeling of having sonic "holes" in the recording. Usually, this happens with those De-noise plugins since they do exactly that, take away some of the frequency bands that have the noise in them, but in turn, remove those frequencies from the vocal recording too, so it can create that hollow sound.
Because this one was done to the unprocessed audio we were left a bit worried since it might be showing that it could be caused by some issue with the recording hardware itself, but before we go there I just wanted to re-confirm with you that the RAW audio had no extra processing done maybe on the master channel or even a bus channel that was there when the audio was exported? Also, some audio interfaces (for example the SSL2+) can have an extra button that does some EQ or compression to the voice before it even gets to your computer, so I wanted to rule out the possibility of maybe having external processing done.
And finally, as a quick fix, while we keep helping you, I think your recordings can benefit greatly from a slight increase in the 7kHz range of around +3dBs. You could add this to your current EQ and it will make your voice shine much more!
Let me know your thoughts about this, and sorry again for taking a bit to answer!
Kind regards,
Daniel
Hi Daniel,
Thank you for your very thorough and thoughtful feedback!
I'm not sure what would be causing the "sonic holes" in my raw audio-although I do see in the spectral view that you are describing. Just so you know my recording set up hardware-wise...I record on a Rode NT1 mic with a Focusrite Scarlett Solo Interface and a MacBook Pro. I have a Kaotica Eyeball on my mic and Auralex panels in my booth. I'm not aware of any compression/EQ or other processing that would happen without my specifically selecting it in Adobe Audition.
As I mentioned...my normal processing chain I've been using for Voice Bunny does include an EQ that was put together specifically for my voice by an audio engineer based on samples I provided him (I'm including a screen shot of that for your reference). The light processing samples I sent you did not have any EQ. So to clarify...at this point...you would suggest processing my VB projects with an EQ that is up 3db in the 7kHz from where it is in this screen grab, and normalizing...along with of course manual editing of breaths, etc. No noise reduction, and no de-clicking...or perhaps may just super targeted de-clicking if I find that I can't handle mouth noises with manual editing?
Thanks again and looking forward to continuing this discussion!
Best,
Lauren
Hello Lauren!
That is super useful information indeed! The dip on your EQ matches that suggestion of the 7kHz boost, You could try deactivating that band (the fifth one, at the 8249 frequency) and that might help a lot without having to increase highs in the way I described in the previous post.
Also, by checking those dips on the EQ, they seem to match the ones on the spectrogram so I don't know if maybe the EQ was left activated when you exported the RAW file? I believe that by modifying those dips you could have a more even sound.
Let's try something, first, make sure your custom setting is saved (I don't want you to lose it because of our tests!) and then, change the dB on the second band to -2 and the one on the third one to -1. Finally, deactivate that 5th band (I think you can do that by clicking on the number) or if that doesn't work, just bring its dB value to 0.
After that, could you share any of your recordings with that different EQ preset so we can give it a listen?
Thank you so much!
Daniel
Hi Daniel-
I just emailed the engineer who put together my EQ and sent him your feedback...he sent me this screen shot to tweak my settings to meet your suggestions...would this be correct...or should I try what you mentioned in your most recent email? (fiddling with EQ settings still feels very foreign to me-which is why I usually outsource this job :) Let me know and I'll try adjusting the settings accordingly and sending you a sample...
Hello Lauren!
Hmm on that last picture it seems like the engineer changed the 4th band, making it a bit higher (to 6.6k) and louder (6.5dB) but the other ones that I addressed before are still intact. I think we can try exporting a file with this last EQ that he sent you and maybe giving it a go with the settings I mentioned in the previous post! I think you can try them yourself, although it can feel a bit foreign to you, I'm pretty sure you will be able to hear the difference and see which setting you prefer. Also, it is never a bad day to learn something new!
I would also really like to hear your voice with this last change and with my suggested changes to see how it goes, but I believe we are on a great path at the moment!
So, whenever you have some free time I would really appreciate it if you could export a recording with those settings and share it here with us :)
Thank you again for your willingness, Lauren, and I hope you are having a really nice day!
Daniel
Hi Daniel,
Ok...so I just took the original EQ settings that I was using and did my best to adjust them to your initial suggestions- I took a screen shot just to be sure we're on the same page. Then I recorded a new file...applied this new EQ and normalized it...and handled breaths and mouth noise manually. It certainly is a different sound! Let me know how this looks and sounds to you!
Many thanks for all your help- and yes, of course you're right...it's never a bad day to learn something new :)
https://we.tl/t-dQlMJrYb9s
Hello Lauren!
Thank you for trying it out! After a careful listen, I think it might be better to go back to the previous one and try with the new settings your engineer sent you. I believe the original EQ addresses some acoustic issues that I would like to go over with you in a second since it sounds like there are many near-field reflections that can make the recording sound a bit enclosed (it is more evident with the last file, on the first ones it wasn't that present).
If it is okay, whenever you have a bit of free time could you take a couple of pictures of the recording space? Just to check what might cause those reflections, since we know your equipment is top-notch and definitely is not causing any problems, the next variable to tackle is the space :)
Thank you again, and I hope you have a lovely weekend!
Daniel
Hi Daniel,
Ok...here is a file that I processed with the exact EQ that my engineer created based on your recommendations....(so not the last one I sent you a picture of, the one before that :) It's normalized, and with manual breath editing:
https://we.tl/t-WKNK9TkBfZ
Also...as requested, here is a picture of my space...it is a closet with sliding doors...so when I'm recording the doors are shut.
Best,
Lauren
Hello again Lauren!
Sorry I took a bit to answer, it was a crazy weekend and a busy Monday as well.
Thanks for the new file and the picture! I think the sound is the best one so far :)
Regarding the recording space, you can always benefit from adding a bit more acoustic foam to cover those wooden spaces, and also locating the foam in a more "clustered" manner, closer to your Kaotica, could really help! My final advice regarding your space is that you can separate the Kaotica from the wall a bit more to avoid close reflections. You can play around a bit with these suggestions and see if they help you improve your sound!
I will ask my Friend Hector to give your pic a look and see if he has more tips for you, since he records on a similar space to that one.
Kind regards,
Daniel
Hi Daniel,
Thanks so much for all your advice! I will continue to tweak things :) I did want to check in because this morning I submitted two speedies that were approved, and then one that was rejected due to sounding "overprocessed"...without being given the opportunity to try and fix the issue. All three projects were recorded with the same settings, and pretty much one right after the other...so I'm just a little confused as to what exactly went wrong with the rejected sample? If you have a chance to offer some insight here, I would appreciate it!
Best,
Lauren
Hi Lauren!
Could you share those project links with me? Especially that last one, since I would like to give it a look and help you out.
Kind regards,
Daniel
Hi Daniel-
Thanks...here's a link to the file that was rejected...I used the same processing chain we dialed in and had just had two previous speedies approved...so not sure what went wrong here...looking forward to your input...thanks!
https://we.tl/t-1T4bE6qGTD
Best,
Lauren
Hello again Lauren,
Thank you for sharing that file! I was checking it and I could hear some strange clicking noises in some sections (around 0:16 for example) because some processes can cause audio glitches, that might be the reason why that one was cataloged as overprocessed. In any case, I wanted to check why those clicking sounds might have happened, do you think maybe they were caused in editing, or maybe they were just mouth clicks?
Other than that, I do not believe there are any extra issues with that specific file.
Kind regards,
Daniel