"Number of Takes Requested" option on the Project submission page so we get paid correctly
I've suggested this directly to support before. I'm doing it again here so we can all get behind it.
When a client asks you to provide 3 takes (for example...) You have the right to be paid for 3x the word count Plus a fee per take, just like if the client were asking for the project in sections.
A 40 word script, for example, with 3 takes, is actually a 120 word script with 3 sections, right? That's 3x the work, but the client only pays for it like it's ONE project.
In their defense, Support is absolutely AWESOME about paying the additional "Reward" when you ask them (So make sure you do so you're not short changing yourself!) But, it's not right for us to have to ask...
It should be simple. On the New Project Submission Form, simply put a drop-down box that says "Number of Takes Requested." Have that box effect the rate that the client pays, and as such, the amount that the talent gets paid. Everybody wins!
Even better, the poor, overworked, under appreciated, incredibly nice and hard-working people at support don't need to be bogged down by all of us messaging them all the time about not being reimbursed fairly for the work we do. Win-Win-Win-Win!
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Hi Christopher,
Thanks for your suggestion!
I get the solution your presenting, but in our current system, we always try to suggest all our actors should factor in revisions and multiple takes in their rates as the unlimited revisions are one of the features of Bunny Inc. In this way, you are covered for when some clients ask for multiple takes or revision.
Plus, if a client does ask for multiple takes you can always reach out to us and will negotiate an extra fee as we did in the past!
Sorry Rolf, but that is a cop-out. What you are saying is: Hey, if the client asks for more takes and the talent provides it, what do we care whether or not they are being paid fairly? Why should we bother?
Plus, in making the Talent ask for an "Extra Fee" what you are doing is telling us that WE are the ones that are asking for something extra, not the client... which is patently false. They are asking for more product and trying to pay for less. That should have you shaking your head wondering "What are they thinking?" not saying... Well, if it's important to the talent to be paid for their work, and they take the time to ask us for it, then we'll pay them.
What I consistently get from Support is, "We rely on you (the talent) to tell us when..." For the incredibly high rate that you charge for your service - 66% of the total amount paid by the client for the project as of the last graphic I have found - we should rely on you to provide an easy way for us to do our jobs without the inconvenience of having to contact Support to be paid correctly. Seriously.
Think of it this way:
Say your job is to answer posts like this one on this Forum, and you get paid PER ANSWER.
Now, say your boss says "For this next question, give me 3 different versions of your response." (Now, instead of you getting paid for 3 answers, you're only getting paid once, but still having to write 3 answers.)
The next week, you log-in to find all 3 of your answers being used to answer different posts - but you've only been paid once. How do you feel? A bit ticked-off? Pretty unappreciated? Feel, kinda... used? You should. So you go into your boss's office and complain and he says, "Oh, well, I rely on YOU to tell me when I should be paying you fairly. You're right, I'll pay you for that work..." Does that make it all better? Or, is your relationship with your employer now soured by unfair practices?
Now, do you wonder how many other posts your answer was used on that you haven't been paid for?
Now think of this. We talent don't work FOR Bunny, inc. We work WITH you. So now, it's not your boss that's acting like that. It's someone you're supposed to trust to be your business Partner. That makes it even more shady.
What I want is for you to make it easier for us to get paid fairly for our work. That doesn't seem unreasonable, does it? It's an easy thing for you to do, technology wise. Every bargain-basement e-commerce site has a "Quantity" box on their product line. Sell the client the right quantity, so we get paid the right amount the first time. You get paid a more fair rate for the project. And, Support has their workload lightened a bit, by not having to answer us "Asking" for an "Extra Reward." - Win-Win-Win!
Time to make it happen! You can do it!
I disagree with this idea. In ANY professional session I've ever done at a studio (at least, up to a certain length), there are virtually always multiple takes involved. It's simply a matter of honing in on the precise tone the client is seeking. I don't get paid extra for extra takes. Frankly, this strikes me as completely silly. I always deliver multiple takes to the client on any job under a certain length (say, a few hundred words). It not only provides them with a backup read (since it's always possible that something slips thru that is undesirable on the first one), but it allows them to feel more empowered in making a choice. I do this whether or not they request it. On short reads (under a minute), I will often do it 3-4 times. I can understand that opinions may differ on this subject...but the idea of being paid for multiple takes as if they contribute to the word count of a project? Nah...not buying that one. Revisions, of course, are a different story.
I get what you're saying Chuck, and I would agree with it. IF we were getting paid studio rates and IF we were able to communicate with the client directly so we could reduce the number of re-takes I have been asked to do simply because the client wasn't clear about - or wasn't sure about - what they wanted in the first place. But, to get paid at budget rates (rates that are based on word count, and not on completed project or hours worked like most studio sessions are) and then have clients keep coming back over and over because they want to hear it a differently. You know what, the client and VB could make all of our lives easier by asking for that up-front, paying for it up-front, having it delivered the first time, and then allowing us to move on to other things.
If you are providing 3-4 reads and only getting paid for 1, you're selling yourself short and you are doing a disservice to the client who will expect that from ALL of the voice-talent they work with and won't receive it. It's also possible that the same client is already paying other talent full price for the 3-4 reads, and paying you for just the one because they can... because you are not sticking up for yourself. It's like the Joker says, "If you're good at something, never do it for free..."
I wish you well and thank you for providing an alternate angle to this post. I firmly believe that open, friendly discussion from multiple viewpoints helps everybody grow and improve.
Good luck, and happy mic-time!
Chris
Hi Chris,
I *do* agree that not being able to communicate with the client is a major issue. It has certainly cost me dearly when it comes to my Booking rejection rate. As someone who has been in this racket for decades, I fully acknowledge that not every voice can deliver up to a client's expectations every time. I've had that happen...maybe twice in 35 years. And when it's easy to go book another voice (as it is here), the likelihood of bailing on a voice is even higher. At the same time, I believe that I can deliver effectively with almost all clients if there is a clear path to understanding their needs.
Problem is, of course, that the communication is purely one-way here, and there is almost no way to have Support intervene quickly enough (and certainly not on a 24/7 basis) to act as intermediary in any but the most egregious situations. This is a real problem.
I think where you and I differ, though, is here: They are only going to use ONE read, not multiples. So they are not paying for multiples. Yes, for simplicity's sake, the jobs are bid by word count. But, it's still true that they are buying your time, talent and attention to work for them on a project which is a certain length. If it takes a few read to get from here to there, I say: "no harm, no foul". And I find that clients are very grateful for the extra flexibility.
That's just my perspective, and I agree with you about the value of discussion, even when it doesn't result in agreement. 🙂
C=
Hey gentlemen -
Saw this and thought I'd chime in here because I've run into this not just on VB, but other casting sites that I participate.
Chuck, you mentioned that the client is only using one of your reads for the final product, not all three. Are you speaking strictly about VB or when working with your personal clients? If you're referring to VB, how do you know they are only using the one read? If you give them 3-4 and they love all three, what's to stop them from using all three? You also made the point that client is booking you for your time, talent, and attention. You are 100% correct, but I'd politely argue that it takes more time to read the same script 3-4 times than it does once. If there's a revision because the read wasn't what the client was expecting, then they should've been explicit in their directions.
Now not everything lives in a vacuum, right? If we are talking about, returning clients on the VB platform that have been good to us that keep coming back because they receive excellent service. If those clients ask for a couple extras from time to time, I would have no problem throwing them a bone or 2 or 3 or 4 :) But if it's the first time I am working with that client, then we need to "court each other a little bit" because why by the cow when the milk is free.
I do think the issue of transparency on the VB is becoming a recurring theme on these forums and should be addressed.
Trey, your question is a reasonable one. However, in my estimation, you are giving way too much credit to clients for the potential to exploit us by grabbing and employing every single available read. If that possibility troubles you, then it makes sense that you should certainly be cautious. It does not trouble me at all.
And, sure...I'd love to think that normal rules apply here. And, for some people, maybe they do. But VB charges a good rate for the work. It's only at our end that we don't see much. I believe they have a LOT of work to do to make the site more seriously competitive in the market, and to bring in higher-end clients on a consistent basis. Of course, when that happens, the higher-caliber talent from the other P2P sites willl come pouring in here as well, and it will be a lot different than it is now.
But, for the time being, with way, way, way too many voices on here who aren't really capable of delivering quality work (whether because of talent level or sub-par recording environments), the environment is very noisy and scattered...and it's very difficult to gain any leverage which would allow one expect more from the clients. Maybe that's not the case for you. If so, more power to you. But, for now, I need whatever work I can get from here, and I'll have to take the stuff I can, and do what I can to make it stand out. So I will continue to do as I have been doing, until I see opportunities to raise rates, raise standards, etc. Right now, it's too chaotic here for me to consider doing that.
best,
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